Gracie Abrams

About Gracie Abrams

How Making 'Good Riddance' Helped Gracie Abrams Surrender To Change And Lean Into The Present

While working on her debut album ahead of touring with Taylor Swift, the 23-year-old singer/songwriter not only tapped into a curiosity about growing up, but learned how to trust herself more.

TAILA LEE
|GRAMMYS
FEB 24, 2023 - 01:18 PM

There's a mesmerizing delicacy to Gracie Abrams' music. Her breathy, graceful vocals hang over sharply insightful songwriting, compelling you to listen just a little more closely. And once Abrams has your attention, she holds it close to her chest.

On her debut album Good Riddance, out Feb. 24, Abrams knits an ornate helix of homesickness and heartbreak. You can feel the lightning of a love that came out of the blue, and almost hear Abrams' mom on the phone through childhood bedroom walls. Throughout the record, Abrams draws listeners in as she sifts through what ifs and why nots in search of relief.

While her last two EPs — minor (2020) and This Is What It Feels Like (2021) spun bittersweet depictions of half-drunk happy past lovers, Good Riddance confronts her resentment and recklessness. Though the alt-pop album leads with a blurry black-and-white aesthetic, Good Riddance bleeds into the gray areas of right and wrong, of closeness and distance.

"It's funny when albums come out a year after you've written them," Abrams tells GRAMMY.com. "I feel like so much life has happened since then in a really great way. So it's almost like talking about it in hindsight now, but I'm desperately excited for it to belong to everyone else."

It's not easy coming to terms with a rollercoaster of feelings, especially at age 23, and it's even less easy to share them. But after crafting Good Riddance at Long Pond Studios in New York, Abrams credits her close friend and collaborator the National's Aaron Dessner with helping her settle into her vulnerability more comfortably. Her third headlining tour kicks off early this March, and she'll support Taylor Swift's Eras Tour in April alongside Phoebe Bridgers, beabadoobee, HAIM, MUNA, and others.

Before life grew too busy, Abrams logged onto Zoom to chat with GRAMMY.com. Wearing a soft smile and gray sweatshirt, she enjoyed a "super, super caffeinated cappuccino." ("I always get glares when I order it. People are like, 'Is she okay?'" Abrams says. "No.")

As she sipped on four shots of espresso, Gracie Abrams shared intimate details on her album's creative process, why touring is the "best kind of exhaustion" she's ever known, and leaning on her fans' rare "superpower" of being able to make her feel better.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

What surprised you most about the creative process for Good Riddance? Or did you feel like the process was similar to other albums'?

No, definitely not remotely similar. I think working with Aaron allowed for so much to come up that I don't think would have for me otherwise. So much of that is because of the trust that he and I share. We have very similar personalities in many ways, and often joke that we share a piece of our brain because certain instincts are so aligned. So to have a space that was so comforting and safe, I was surprised by the ease at which I was able to write about such heavy s—.

I think there was a joy to all of it, even when it hurt really bad to admit feelings through the lyrics. I think I was surprised by how excited I was to go to bed every night so that I could wake up the next morning and do it all over again. All of it felt very different than anything I've done before.

It sounds like it was a cathartic experience for you. I'm really glad he was able to create such a safe space. What's the best piece of advice he's given you?

I think that the biggest takeaway that has been universally applied is to trust myself more. He's made me feel really good at what I bring to the table. And I think that is while also challenging me and pushing me to be the best version.

There's something about that kind of someone — who I admire so much, who is a mentor to me — having confidence in me not just as an artist and a writer, but as a person. He's encouraged me to listen to these internal fire alarms that I think for a while I'd been pushing aside a bit. It's definitely helped enormously.

He's one of my best friends now too. That relationship has been really, really, really massively life-altering. Just because I feel like not only can I call him up and ask him when I'm spiraling about something, how to handle it, he's always like, "well, you already know what you're going to do and trust that, do the thing."

One of my favorite tracks is "Best," which features the titular lyric. Can you tell me more about that song and why you decided to name your debut Good Riddance?

Well, this is the first time that I've made an album where I've been thoughtful about every element, including the tracklist. I think as a songwriter and a storyteller, I'm very invested in the arc of the narrative. So the bookends on the album were very important to me. "Best," which is track one, was one of the more painful songs to write because I think there was a lot that I said in this song that I never even said to the person that it's about. And it feels like a version of an apology in many ways.

And yes, the title comes from a line in that song, and I felt very drawn to what Good Riddance means and feels like when you hear it. I think there's this harsh connotation, that I think is definitely one side of it for sure. But then I also think, in a more kind of conversational offhand way, there's a surrender to change. I feel like there's many elements of the album that consist of me surrendering to change, in having a curiosity about growing up in different ways and what it means to leave certain things behind.

Surrendering to change is such a perfect phrase to describe what the album encapsulates. How do you find yourself coping with change, especially at such a fast-paced time in your life?

I think I'm trying to hold everything a bit more lightly and remind myself that nothing is permanent at all, the good or the bad. Honestly, my experience with touring has allowed me to understand that being a controlling person only makes everything harder.

There's so many unpredictable elements, and you have to be really down to go with the flow and be open to last minute adjustments across the board in order to have the best time. That's something that my tour manager, Mackenzie Dunster, the sickest person of all time, she's like a big sister to me [taught me]. She is very much the person that… [gave me the] understanding that the only thing that you can control is yourself.

When talking about change in general, I try to consciously have more of a softness now than I have in the past towards myself, but also what other people may be going through at any given time, spoken and unspoken. Trying to just be more understanding and less rigid has allowed for more ease when going through these greater transitions. But I definitely am no expert. Especially at 23, I also try to constantly remind myself of how little I know about everything. So I hope I continue to get better at going with the flow.

Navigating your twenties can be so tricky, but it sounds like you have a wonderful support system. What would you go back and tell the Gracie that made minor?

I would say so many things. I think mostly get off your phone a lot. I think I would urge myself from back then to remember what is real and what is not real. That was the year before my worst anxiety ever, so I think I would also whisper little tools into my ear about how to deal a bit better in healthier ways and things.

But that being said, I also do feel very grateful for having gone through the things that I did at that time. And I wouldn't change them, but I do think it's awful. When I think back on the amount of time I spent on my phone, or looking for validation, or posting about feelings, [I want to tell myself] just shut your mouth and go to sleep. You know what I mean?

You've been in the music release, tour, music release, tour pattern for a while. Do you feel like you're going with the flow now, and you're more used to it?

I feel really thrilled to get back on the road, especially for [my] headline [tour] being the first tour this year. It feels comforting. I feel so excited to be back in rooms with people that are nice enough to show up and be vulnerable with their feelings, and reciprocate in that way.

It also is such a significant reminder of what I feel we all were lacking over the past few years in having that sense of community in a room and being okay, being emotional with strangers. It's so specific, and… I haven't found it can be replicated elsewhere.

So I've missed it dearly. And I think knowing that I am capable of doing it is very helpful going into this year. Especially with the Taylor tour too, the scale is so extreme and so wildly different from anything I even had the imagination for. I truly can't wait. But definitely, I feel a greater sense of calm than I did before.

What's been one of your favorite tour experiences or fan attractions? I'm sure you have a lot to pick from.

It's just so lucky and it's so fun to remember all of it. All I can speak to is my relationship with my listeners, but I feel like we have such a close relationship. It literally feels like friendship first to me. Every time I meet someone and have even a quick conversation, we're like, oh, "this is my username and X, Y, Z." Immediately, I'm like, "oh, we've talked before a billion times, or you sent me this meme on this day, and I really needed it" because I felt sad. Or reading letters from my audience when I'm really far away from home and feeling immediately cured of all homesickness.

There's this weird superpower that I feel they have, that again, is just such a rare thing. It makes me so grateful and just is a constant reminder of how giving they are with their time and energy and experiences. To share with me anything at all also makes me feel way more down to share about my life.

But I think it's funny too, with these songs on this album, a lot of them are very explicit and it's also very raw still. And I think I'm still navigating how to have a job that is so intertwined with my personal life and how to protect my energy and my privacy, while also wanting to be open and vulnerable.

I've been spending a lot less time on social media recently because it has been better for my head. Especially with tour coming up, what feels real to me is the in-person interactions [rather than what comes] up online that feels destructive or distracting. When I think about this as an album that I don't want to be giving much added context to, I think I'm really more interested in hearing from everybody else [about] how it makes them feel. I think I also want to just keep some parts of it for me.

How do you remind yourself to stay present?

Well, every time I've felt like I've been on stage and I'm thinking about something else by accident, the show is worse in my mind. I remind myself to stay present because I have the best time when I'm exactly where I am. And I think the easiest way to do that is to make real, direct eye contact with someone in the audience and just lock in for a minute.

I think there is a softness and a sensitivity to the audience that [enables me to] feel more okay to show up as I am on any given day. And I've definitely had certain shows where I'm like, "can we all just take a group breath for a second?" And sometimes I do that when I am having some weird wave of a feeling, or an anxiety or something creeps into my head, I do try to recalibrate in real time. Just having little practices along the way to try to be as present as possible is really helpful.

But I'm also aware that there's so many of these places, for example, I've never been to, and there's so much to explore and to really be excited about — especially on days that you're extra tired, or really homesick, or feel super far away from everyone, or haven't seen your dog in months or whatever it is. The luckiest thing in the world is to be able to write these songs and then perform them, and then meet people through that and connect. That's real and so lucky. So lots of gratitude all the time.

Since you're touring with Taylor Swift in the next few months, what was it like the first time you met her?

It's like meeting an immediate best friend and also a superhero. You know what I mean? She's like the coolest person of all time. She is the warmest. She makes you feel like family instantly. And to have admired her and her work for my entire life, to also then be able to feel that way on a personal level is such a lucky, cool thing. And she's everything that you would ever hope she would be.